0:00 Thomas Mayfield ｜ KERI Infrastructure & the 5 W's ｜ KERI Conference 2026
0:04 All right.
0:07 Good afternoon almost. My name is
0:10 Thomas Mayfield. I'm here from the
0:12 Cardano Foundation. And I'm going to
0:15 be speaking today about Veridian. And
0:18 usually when I'm in front of this
0:21 majority of this group of people, I am
0:23 demonstrating what we've been building.
0:25 But today I have the honor of actually
0:27 providing a bit more of a educational or
0:30 academic. Is it not loud enough Jared?
0:40 Testing better. Excellent. Okay.
0:45 So my name is Thomas Mayfield. I'm
0:46 from the Cardano Foundation. And I'm
0:49 here going to be speaking a bit about
0:50 Veridian. And usually when I'm in
0:52 front of this group of people, I'm
0:54 demonstrating the tech that we've been
0:56 building at the Cardano Foundation.
0:58 But today I have the honor of actually
0:59 providing a bit more of an educational
1:01 overview of KERI and more
1:04 specifically speaking about the
1:06 concept of the five Ws. I will
1:09 intertwine elements of Veridian throughout
1:11 the talk. But I think the majority of
1:14 this audience, it's probably going to be
1:16 Already content you're very familiar
1:18 with, but hopefully for the viewers that
1:21 are going to be watching this online and
1:22 at home, it's a more of an
1:24 informative content for them.
1:27 I'm going to put my timer on so that way
1:29 Henk doesn't have to give me a reminder.
1:32 All right. So, today I'm going to walk
1:34 you through the KERI infrastructure
1:35 using a framework known as the five W's.
1:38 Wallet, witness, watcher, web, and
1:41 wizard. And by the end of this talk,
1:44 you'll understand not just what each of
1:45 these roles are, but how they work
1:47 together as a system and also how Veridian
1:50 is building all of this in the open. So,
1:53 let's start with the problem. Digital
1:56 identity today is borrowed. When you
1:59 create an account, get a credential or
2:01 receive a certificate. You don't
2:03 actually own it. The issuer does, the
2:07 registry does, or the platform does. And
2:11 if that platform shuts down, that
2:14 registry gets compromised or that issuer
2:17 revokes access, your identity
2:19 effectively disappears with it.
2:22 You are effectively a tenant, not an
2:25 owner of your digital identity. But
2:28 KERI changes this. With KERI, your
2:31 identity is rooted in cryptographic keys
2:33 that you control. No registry needed, no
2:37 platform dependency.
2:39 It's portable, verifiable,
2:42 and it is yours.
2:45 So what is KERI exactly?
2:48 And I don't think anyone's actually said
2:50 the acronym in the last few days.
2:54 So KERI stands for key event receipt
2:58 infrastructure and there are three core
3:00 concepts that make this work. The first
3:03 is self-certifying identifiers
3:06 and what this means is that your
3:08 identifier is derived directly from your
3:11 cryptographic keys. There is no registry
3:14 or registrar that grants you your
3:16 identity.
3:18 The second concept is that every
3:20 critical action you take with that
3:23 identifier, such as creating it or
3:26 rotation those controlling cryptographic
3:28 keys, all of these critical events are
3:30 signed and chained into a tamper-evident log.
3:35 And the third concept is everyone can
3:38 verify your identity by replaying the
3:41 same tamper-evident log. There is no
3:44 need for phone home to a central
3:47 repository or authority. And if you'd
3:49 like to understand a bit more about no
3:51 phone home, I encourage you to visit to
3:53 visit nophonehome.com
3:56 and you can read a bit more about this.
3:58 So this combination of concepts, this is
4:02 what gives us something that no other
4:04 identity system achieves and that is
4:06 truly portable trust.
4:10 So let's make this concrete. In KERI,
4:12 your identifier is called an autonomic
4:14 identifier or an AID. And this is a
4:17 cryptographic identifier that you
4:19 generate. Its authority comes from the
4:21 keys that you made. And no one else or
4:24 entity issues that to you. Every
4:27 significant action that the AID conducts
4:30 gets recorded in a Key Event Log and
4:33 that is called a KEL.
4:36 Your inception event, this is when you
4:37 create your AID. The rotation events
4:40 that change the AID's controlling
4:42 cryptographic keys or interaction events
4:45 that anchor data that is critical to
4:46 your AID. Each and every event is
4:49 cryptographically signed.
4:55 Each and every event is cryptographically signed with the
4:57 previous one. And this is what creates a
4:59 tamper-evident chain. If anyone alters a
5:02 single event in this chain, the
5:04 signatures break and the tampering is
5:06 immediately detectable.
5:09 If you're familiar with blockchain
5:10 technology, this is the same hashchain
5:12 data structure that makes blockchain
5:15 secure or immutable.
5:19 Now that you understand the foundations,
5:21 AIDs and KELs, let's talk about the
5:23 infrastructure that makes it all work at
5:25 scale. And we've organized these into
5:27 five roles. And conveniently, Sam has
5:29 started them all with a letter W. So,
5:32 let's move on to the wallet. And this is
5:35 where your identity lives. It's the
5:37 holder's home. The wallet generates and
5:39 rotates the cryptographic keys. It
5:42 stores the verifiable credentials. In
5:44 KERI, these are known as ACDCs. We'll
5:46 talk a bit about this later. The wallet
5:49 signs, presentations, and interaction
5:51 events. And it collects all of this and
5:53 it combines all of this with device
5:55 grade security. This includes
5:57 biometrics, secure enclaves, and anything
5:59 else that occurs on the hardware device
6:01 itself. The key insights here are:
6:04 the wallet is the only component that the
6:06 holder directly controls. The vital
6:09 functions of the wallet in KERI are key
6:11 management and signing.
6:14 At Veridian, we've built an open-source
6:16 mobile-first KERI wallet that is
6:17 production ready and available today.
6:19 You can download that from the Apple iOS
6:21 stores as well as Android Play Store.
6:24 and it is also available on the privacy-preserving
6:26 operating system Graphine OS.
6:29 Witnesses are the second W in the 5W framework.
6:36 They are designated services that
6:38 receive, sign, and republish your key
6:41 events. You can think of these as
6:43 notaries for your KEL.
6:46 They give your event log a highly
6:48 available home so verifiers can access
6:50 it when your wallet is offline. They
6:53 produce receipts that prove the specific
6:56 event has been seen at a specific time.
6:58 And through redundancy of these
7:00 witnesses, we can resist censorship.
7:05 Critically, you choose your witnesses.
7:08 They are not selected or imposed by the
7:11 system on you. And at Veridian, we operate
7:14 witness pools that you can use directly
7:16 or you can host yourself in your own
7:18 infrastructure.
7:21 The third W is the watcher.
7:24 Watchers are independent observers. They
7:27 are critical to KERI.
7:30 Their job is to detect duplicity.
7:33 Meaning: they catch anyone who is trying
7:35 to present two conflicting versions of
7:38 the same Key Event Log.
7:41 This is KERI's answer to the double spend
7:43 problem that you have in blockchain.
7:46 But they do it for identity.
7:49 Watchers give verifiers confidence that
7:51 the state they are seeing is the latest
7:54 legitimate state of an identifier.
7:56 They run separately from issuers and
7:59 holders which means they are truly
8:01 independent.
8:04 This is what turns 'trust me!' into 'check
8:08 for yourself' or 'verify for yourself'. And
8:12 at Veridian, we are deploying highly
8:14 available watcher infrastructure
8:15 services in the second half of this
8:17 year. And I would be remiss if I did not
8:20 pay attention and show gratitude to the
8:23 HealthKERI for releasing the watcher and
8:26 wallets to open source.
8:37 The fourth W is web. This is the discovery and transport
8:39 layer of KERI. This is how parties find
8:42 one another and how they exchange events
8:44 and credentials and they do so through
8:47 something known as an OOBI. This is an
8:50 out-of-band introduction. You can think of
8:53 these as sharable links that bootstrap
8:55 trust between parties.
8:58 Effectively, these can also be assumed
9:00 to be QR codes that establish an initial
9:03 connection and from there mailboxes and
9:05 endpoints handle the messaging moving
9:07 forward. The design of KERI is
9:10 transport agnostic.
9:12 So today it runs over HTTP, but the
9:16 protocol doesn't really care about the
9:18 transport. It can run over Bluetooth,
9:20 over NFC. In fact, it can run across
9:23 anything.
9:24 And it's interoperable across different
9:26 wallets and agents.
9:30 Veridian provides hosted endpoints and
9:32 sandboxes from our data center in
9:34 Switzerland, including infrastructure
9:37 deployment guides for those that are
9:38 interested in deploying.
9:47 The fifth and final W, the wizard. This is how we achieve one-click KERI.
9:50 For example, the majority of users are
9:52 not going to understand how to set their
9:54 witness threshold. Wizards abstract
9:58 low-level details of KERI and they
10:00 provide suitable defaults that ensure we
10:02 make KERI accessible but safe for
10:05 users.
10:07 For developers, we expose highlevel easy
10:09 to understand APIs to build on. And in
10:12 short, the wizard bridges the protocol
10:15 to the product. Without KERI, sorry,
10:19 without wizards, ...
10:26 Yes, without Wizards, KERI is a powerful protocol.
10:28 With Wizards, KERI is a product that
10:31 you can ship to market. And at Veridian,
10:34 we offer one-click onboarding, witness
10:36 selection, and automated schema
10:38 discovery.
10:40 Now, this is the whole picture.
10:44 This is how they all fit together.
10:46 Wallets hold the keys and credentials.
10:48 Witnesses attest to events. Watchers
10:51 verify integrity. Wizards orchestrate
10:54 operations and the web connects them all
10:56 and provides scalability. Each of these
10:59 five roles are independently operated,
11:01 independently verified and uniquely can
11:04 be independently replaced.
11:07 So that's the friendly overview. We're
11:10 going to delve a little bit deeper and I
11:12 want to cover four concepts that take
11:14 KERI from an interesting protocol to a
11:16 production grade infrastructure. And
11:18 those four concepts are pre-rotation,
11:20 delegation, multi-signature control,
11:23 and ACDCs.
11:25 So we'll start with pre-rotation. And
11:27 this is one of KERI's most elegant
11:29 concepts. In fact, it was probably the
11:32 main concept that enabled me to
11:36 influence the board of the Cardano
11:38 Foundation to allow me to build on
11:40 KERI.
11:42 Pre-rotation,
11:44 as I mentioned, is one of the most
11:46 elegant concepts of KERI. At
11:48 inception of an AID, the moment you
11:51 create it, you don't just commit to your
11:53 current keys. You also include a hash of
11:56 your next-keys set. Those next keys stay
12:00 offline.
12:01 They remain unused
12:04 only until you need to rotate your
12:06 controlling key. If an attacker steals
12:09 your current signing keys, they cannot
12:12 forge a valid rotation event. And
12:15 because they cannot do that and because
12:17 they don't have your next keys, but
12:19 because you have committed a hash of
12:22 your next keys, that rotation is already
12:24 locked in and you can verify someone is
12:27 legitimate controller of an identifier
12:29 without publishing the public key. This
12:32 is extremely important.
12:35 This gives KERI something called post-
12:37 compromise recovery. Even after a key
12:40 compromise, you can regain control. And
12:43 because of this commitment, using this
12:46 hash, we have resistance to future
12:48 quantum-computing attacks. There is no
12:52 other digital identity system that
12:53 offers this level of key management
12:55 today.
12:57 Multi- signature control. This ensures
13:02 no single point of compromise for high
13:04 value identifiers.
13:06 An AID can require M of N signers. For
13:10 example, two or three board members must
13:12 sign to rotate the organization's root
13:15 key. The threshold can be weighted for
13:17 governance scenarios. Rotation events
13:20 are also respective of the threshold
13:22 rules. This means you cannot bypass
13:24 multi- signature control even during a
13:26 rotation event.
13:28 This is critical for enterprise AIDs
13:30 where a single compromise no longer
13:32 means the entire organization is now
13:34 compromised; and 'game over'. And Veridian
13:37 supports multi-signature control
13:39 coordination, out-of-the box, with our
13:41 Veridian wallet and our cloud agents. And
13:43 we handle the ceremony of gathering the
13:45 signatures across multiple parties
13:47 seamlessly for you.
13:51 ACDCs: authentic chained data containers.
13:54 This is KERI's answer to
13:56 verifiable credentials, but they go much
13:59 further than the typical verifiable
14:01 credential or VC that exists in the
14:03 decentralized identity space. Each ACDC
14:06 is signed and anchored into an issuer's
14:09 KEL. So, its provenance is always
14:12 verifiable.
14:13 Schemas are composable and versionable,
14:16 so you can build complex credential
14:18 types from simpler ones. An ACDC
14:21 supports graduated disclosure where you
14:24 can share only the minimum information
14:26 needed for a given interaction. And
14:28 you'll notice on the slide that the
14:30 credentials chain back through the
14:31 schemas and issuers to a Root of Trust.
14:35 This is what authentic chained really
14:37 means. Every link in the chain is
14:40 verifiable.
14:42 And Veridian wallet allows you to store
14:44 and present ACDCs natively. It's also
14:47 important to mention that although the
14:48 wallet is storing a copy of your ACDC,
14:52 the way that ACDCs work, the way that
14:54 they are presented, if you lose your
14:56 wallet, you are still able to recover
14:58 those ACDCs because it is effectively
15:00 the keys that allow you to prove
15:02 ownership of those credentials. So, as
15:04 long as you have a backup of that data
15:07 somewhere, you can regain those
15:08 credentials or you can request that they
15:10 are reissued to you. This is extremely
15:12 powerful.
15:16 Delegation of authority. This would probably be the second reason
15:21 I was able to influence the Cardano
15:22 Foundation to pursue this technology.
15:25 Delegation is how KERI handles
15:27 organizational identity. An AID can
15:30 delegate authority through ACDCs down
15:33 from a Root of Trust. GLEIF's vLEI system
15:37 uses exactly this pattern for
15:38 organizational identity within the
15:40 financial sector. A qualified vLEI issuer,
15:44 a QVI, receives a delegation from the
15:48 GLEIF's root AID, and then has the
15:50 authority to issue legal entity
15:52 credentials to other organizations.
15:55 That same authority can also be revoked
15:57 at any time. Delegated AIDs also enable
16:01 top-down hierarchical recovery. For
16:04 example, this is how GLEIF can recover a
16:06 compromised QVI's AID.
16:09 With KERI delegation, the trust chain
16:12 is always auditable. You can always
16:15 trace any delegated AID back to its
16:18 root.
16:21 So, at Veridian, we are building all five of the W's. The open- source mobile
16:27 wallet. We are hosting witness pools and
16:30 self-hosting options for those who are
16:31 interested. We are committed to
16:33 releasing public and private watcher
16:35 services this year. We have hosted
16:38 endpoints, UB resolution, credential
16:40 management services, secure KERI
16:42 tunnels and identity access management
16:46 integration modules.
16:49 We have enterprise onboarding,
16:51 provisioning services, deployment and
16:52 infrastructure automation as well as
16:55 disaster recovery. All of this is open
16:58 source. All of this is production grade
17:00 and it is built in the open by the
17:03 Cardano Foundation. I'd now like to share
17:06 with you an overview of what it is
17:08 Veridian is aiming to achieve for the
17:11 second half of this year and into the
17:13 years to come.
17:15 Can you trust who's on the other side?
17:19 Institutions cannot verify who they're children with strangers. AI agents
17:27 execute without a story
17:29 Today we cannot answer the most basic
17:31 questions who's on the other side and who authorizes to act. Veridian has built the answer to both
17:38 an indentifier you can verify a trusted .. to every transaction
17:43 auditble, traceable, compliant, governments can verify identity patients' data
17:49 owner controlled age verified without saying name birthdate or address
17:55 Both sides of every transaction verify instantly ...
18:01 An AI agent can take over ... you can control over automated action
18:09 Authorized on record before anything can happen. Veridian, the digital trust every industry needs.
18:19 So I leave you with these takeaways.
18:22 If there are four things that I would
18:24 like you to take from this talk, it is
18:26 1. KERI moves identity from platforms
18:29 and registries to cryptography.
18:32 Self-certifying identifiers combined
18:34 with signed event logs mean no authority
18:36 is needed.
18:38 2. The five W's make KERI concrete.
18:42 Wallet, witness, watcher, web, and
18:46 wizard. These five roles in one coherent
18:50 system.
18:52 Three,
18:54 pre-rotation,
18:55 delegation,
18:57 multi- signature control make it
18:59 enterprise ready.
19:02 Post-compromise recovery, hierarchical
19:05 trust, and threshold control, address
19:08 real world needs for the digital age. And
19:12 4. Veridian ships all of this open source.
19:15 You can start building today. If
19:19 you just need to verify, you can just
19:21 verify.
19:23 But it is all here available open source.
19:25 And finally, I'd like us all
19:27 please a round of applause and thanks to
19:30 Samuel Smith for his life dedication to
19:33 KERI.
19:37 Thank you, if there are any questions?
19:41 I can provide the slides if you'd like.
19:48 If you go to the website, reach out or
19:50 just come speak with me directly. I can
19:51 share them with you. Thomas, thank you
19:54 for this great u presentation very just
19:58 actually your voice just brings peace.
19:59 But anyway, go going back to my
20:03 question is given that Cardano is it's a
20:05 proper blockchain I'd like to know
20:08 more how you leverage it. How I
20:10 assume witnesses or watchers are part of
20:13 the infrastructure that the ledger
20:15 itself provides.
20:18 So the Cardano Foundation
20:22 is a very different blockchain
20:24 foundation than the others.
20:27 We don't have castles and yachts.
20:30 But we do have a vision for what is
20:33 the right thing to do for technology and
20:36 for people. And what we've been able to
20:39 do is actually build Veridian
20:41 completely off-chain. And the way that we
20:43 actually leverage the chain is in a
20:47 number of ways. One we are also going
20:51 through the process of becoming the
20:52 first Swiss-based QVI. So Cardano is
20:55 the only blockchain that is vLEI
20:57 compatible at the moment as far as I'm
20:58 aware. We also have the only vLEI
21:01 compatible mobile wallet. We are working
21:04 towards a verifiable smart contract
21:06 format as well as a programmable token
21:09 that leverages KERI as the identity
21:11 layer for the token itself.
21:14 You can actually visit
21:16 verifiablesmartcontract.com
21:18 and see a report that was put together
21:20 between GLEIF, Key State Capital and the
21:22 Cardano Foundation if you'd like to
21:24 understand more about that.
21:26 We're also looking at how digital
21:30 identity or decentralized identity and
21:32 Sam touched on this a bit in day one.
21:34 Every blockchain uses decentralized
21:38 identity as a mechanism to try and lock
21:40 you into their chain and to sell their
21:43 token.
21:45 And although this initially seems to be
21:48 a good approach they all fail.
21:53 They never have interoperability
21:57 and ultimately we are creating more and
21:59 more fragmented identity with varying
22:01 levels of security and recoverability.
22:05 What we've been able to do with KERI
22:09 Is we've created
22:12 verification across chains just using
22:15 KERI as that identity layer. So we have
22:18 worked with partners in Canada that are
22:20 using Corda and we've created
22:22 verifiability of data between public and
22:25 permissioned ecosystems.
22:27 We've integrated it with IoT modules for
22:30 signing data that passes through sensors
22:33 to have an irrefutable audit trail
22:36 for emissions data on which actual
22:38 Canadian dollars were then paid out to
22:40 these participants.
22:42 But we see this as being an identity
22:45 that can work across any network, any
22:47 chain. That agnostic element of KERI
22:50 is extremely powerful in a blockchain
22:52 space.
22:53 So a very long-winded way is we are
22:56 we are integrating it into the Cardano
22:58 blockchain in ways that make sense but
23:01 recognizing that the identity must live
23:03 off-chain.
23:05 We have one product as well called Reeve
23:07 where we sign our financial records and
23:10 upload them to the blockchain and we
23:12 actually have had the auditor get
23:15 their vLEI and they are also signing
23:17 attestations and anchoring them on-chain.
23:19 So this is the sort of direction we are
23:21 moving in as it pertains to the Cardano
23:23 blockchain itself.
23:41 When Midnight came out I thought there was a you know a lot of overlap
23:44 with this. I don't know if you guys are
23:46 involved with Midnight at all or if
23:47 that's a sep separate thing. Can you
23:49 talk to that?
23:50 I can. I have a meeting next month.
23:53 We've had an initial conversation
23:55 with them. Midnight was looking at
23:58 DID methods in general. For those that
24:01 don't know Cardano is broken down into
24:05 a number of entities founding entities.
24:07 One of them is input output.
24:12 This is a US-based entity out of
24:14 Wyoming. Initially was founded in
24:16 Asia. The Cardano Foundation is
24:20 purposely put in place to ensure that
24:24 regardless of what happens with the
24:25 Cardano blockchain that Web3 and
24:28 blockchain technology drives forward. So
24:30 the mandate of the Cardano Foundation
24:32 doesn't say that if the Cardano
24:35 blockchain was to fail that the
24:37 foundation closes. Our remit is to just
24:39 drive decentralized technology in web 3.
24:42 Obviously we are focused in on the
24:43 Cardano blockchain. I know that they
24:46 are very interested in the power of
24:48 KERI and the value that vLEI brings to a
24:52 financial privacy infrastructure that
24:55 they are building on midnight. Midnight
24:56 is a privacy-focused blockchain that is
24:59 being deployed by our partners in the
25:01 States. And we are having those
25:04 conversations now.
25:13 What's your what has been the feedback when you talk to enterprises
25:15 and companies, corporations about what
25:17 you're doing, adoption. I'm just curious
25:20 to see what you guys see out in the in
25:22 the wild.
25:23 Sure. Absolutely. Well, nothing is
25:25 exciting us more than SEDI. But we are
25:28 focusing.., what we are building is we're
25:31 building tech that we can deploy across
25:32 five verticals. So we initially have
25:34 started focusing in on Switzerland
25:36 within the financial sector. We're
25:39 having conversations with financial
25:41 market infrastructure players in
25:42 Switzerland who understand the power of
25:46 KERI or more specifically the vLEI.
25:50 They understand there is an efficiency
25:52 of reusable compliance that is initially
25:55 attested by their internal compliance
25:57 team. One of the challenges here is
26:00 regulation. So specifically in
26:03 Switzerland, there is a stable coin
26:05 regulation that will come out in 2028.
26:08 There is also work that's happening
26:10 with the Secure Asset Transfer Protocol (SATP, red)
26:12 that you'll hear a bit about later today
26:13 as well. One of the challenges here
26:16 is you need participants that are
26:19 willing to take a risk on a technology
26:22 Until they're mandated to do so by
26:24 regulation. So many people are open.
26:28 We are uniquely positioned to lower
26:31 the curve of adoption. So we are going
26:33 in and speaking with these partners and
26:35 being able to deploy pilots and
26:37 demonstrate how the tech can be
26:38 integrated into their systems. When
26:41 we speak with other enterprises
26:45 What we actually do is we position
26:47 the value proposition without delving
26:49 too deep into KERI and ACDC initially
26:51 because you can kind of lose them.
26:54 But effectively and I think it was
26:56 but effectively, and I think it was mentioned previously, we need to angle
27:00 this as a cost reduction or a security
27:02 uplift. And then the final kind of
27:05 caveat or carrot is you know increase
27:08 market share. So the real
27:11 value or uptick and adoption that we
27:15 see is when we can actually not only
27:18 deal with the bank-to-bank
27:20 compliance and verification but bring
27:22 the power of KERI and vLEI into the
27:26 end-client's wallet where you now have this
27:28 end-to-end Root of Trust. So when you
27:30 start handling digital products
27:34 financial products you have this very
27:36 robust compliant Root of Trust.
27:42 It has never been more.., I have people
27:48 reaching out now for vLEI and KERI before
27:52 we were constantly pushing so it's never
27:54 been more clear that there is a snowball
27:57 that is building and building I think
28:00 the successes around SEDI are only going
28:01 to add to that momentum within
28:04 Switzerland alone we are using a KERI-like
28:06 method for the digital identity
28:08 program verifiable history and my
28:12 intentions are to start really driving
28:14 that conversation to full KERI and
28:16 using SEDI as the example of what's
28:18 happening on this side of the
28:19 world.
28:28 Did I hear KERI light correctly? Yes, that's right.
28:29 Okay. Could you explain what KERI light
28:31 is?
28:33 So I mean effectively what you have with
28:35 a 'KERI Light' method is some of the
28:37 elements of KERI which are easier to
28:41 implement but not the full five W's
28:45 effectively they are using what's
28:49 known as DID Verifiable History (didvh)
28:52 which is considered a KERI Light method
28:56 that's sort of the best there's another
28:58 way to explain that
28:59 maybe that's a discussion that we could
29:01 have offline
29:02 because we don't believe that KERI
29:04 Light exists in general because you will
29:08 have to trade off security.
29:11 Neither do I.
29:12 I got another question about this.
29:15 You said that Veridian is the
29:19 implementation of 5Ws
29:21 and as you know we have collected
29:24 quite a few sponsors to finance
29:29 the development of 5WS in the foundation
29:32 as well. So I wonder how is that
29:35 synchronized
29:42 In what regard? Well, we are building code and you have been building code for
29:45 the five W's and I wonder how that
29:48 is synchronized.
29:50 We contribute to WebOfTrust. Fergal
29:52 is a maintainer of KERIA.
29:54 All right.
29:54 We're also a sponsor of the KERI
29:57 Conference.
29:57 Yeah. Yeah. Of course. That's the
29:59 conference
30:00 and we definitely we believe in
30:03 contributing as much as possible to
30:05 WebofTrust, KERI Foundation.
30:07 So, so there's a way that we could
30:10 maybe formal do some more stuff like one
30:14 of the things that benefits wallets is
30:17 to have multi-vendor suppliers of
30:19 witnesses and watcher services. So
30:22 standardizing on plugins that various
30:24 vendors can contribute to wallets. So
30:27 all wallets support multiple vendors of
30:30 the infrastructure and then they can
30:32 differentiate on other things as well.
30:34 that I think that's attractive
30:36 to enterprises that want to adopt to see
30:39 that a given vendor isn't just supplying
30:43 one set of stuff.
30:45 Absolutely.
30:47 Go ahead, Phil.
30:48 Can I can I add to that? I think
30:51 We've heard several times over this
30:52 course this week from the state of Utah
30:55 signaling that they can't do this with
30:57 just one vendor. They need multiple
30:59 vendors and the way we synchronize with
31:02 each other is the KERI protocol. And so
31:04 I think it's awesome that these guys are
31:06 building this great platform that's
31:07 going to help move KERI forward. That's
31:09 what we all need. We need more of it.
31:12 Yeah. The question is more that we that
31:14 we don't do double work so we create the
31:16 same code at several.
31:19 You almost have to because you need
31:21 multiple vendors running the code so
31:23 that people can. So, for example, we
31:25 tell our customers, you can't just get
31:27 your witnesses from us. We need other
31:28 people with witnesses so that they can
31:30 they have the security needed from the
31:32 protocol. So, I yeah, there's some
31:34 double work, but these guys have
31:35 contributed a ton to open source. So
31:38 I think it's I think it's working well
31:40 actually.
31:41 Thank you.
31:43 Also, I'd like to give a shout out to
31:44 Fergal.
31:52 I have time, don't I? Yep.
31:53 Excellent.
31:55 Fergal has been instrumental in the
31:57 success of Veridian and he's someone who
32:00 maybe isn't at the front of the room all
32:02 of the time, but because of what Fergal
32:04 does dayto-day, I'm able to stand here
32:06 and talk about the things that are being
32:08 built and shipped and delivered. But
32:11 Fergal is
32:14 Fergal and I went to IIW about four years ago now and we attended a few
32:21 sessions of Samuel Smith, we attended a
32:22 bunch of sessions as well. And
32:25 internally within the Cardano Foundation,
32:27 you might find this funny, Sam, we
32:29 refer to Fergal as our Samuel Smith within
32:32 the foundation. But without his
32:35 dedication and his willingness to
32:40 always speak up and ensure that what we
32:41 are doing from a development
32:43 perspective is aligned with open source
32:45 and with the ESOS of caring ACDC,
32:49 We wouldn't be here today. So, I
32:50 just also want to say thank you Fergal
32:52 for all of your hard work, truly.
33:00 if I could just pile on to make him even more embarrassed. Also, his
33:02 contributions to the KERI ecosystem in
33:04 general as well as the open source
33:05 community. He's one of the top guys that
33:07 we have doing this stuff, moving us
33:09 forward.
33:11 Thank you.
33:13 Speech, speech, speech.
33:16 All right, if no other questions,
33:19 I will end it here. Thank you.
33:21 Thank you very much.